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Strange... Tue, 22 Aug 2000
I happened to be looking at that "Century chart" (on the site, under Seminar, it's StudyChart IV) and noticed in 19-21 Cardinal the grouping that starts with Phaethon (cars, vehicles, transportation, etc.) And I saw the contact with Atlantis--water disaster, drowning... and with Vulcanus (pressure) ... so I began seeing this submarine tragedy... especially since the chart goes on to include Orpheus (death) and Apollon (of many.) If you went to Neptune or Poseidon for a characterization of those events, you'd have found the Node with the Ne-Po square = Hades, Rx = Sun. SO, what do you think this symbolizes (as a metaphor for other things that will use the same energies as raw materials)?
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I've been thinking about comparing both the Gore and Bush charts to that Century chart (because Clinton's angles and issues so matched the previous Century chart and its directions.)
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Also, a few weeks ago, through the site, someone emailed me asking for the positions of the name asteroids that would match the names of hurricanes this season. Since that's more Mark or Jon's area, I suggested that person contact one of them. Have any of you looked into this? Currently, there's a storm named Debbie-- surely there's an asteroid that approximates that--? I've seen Atlantis "work" beautifully for hurricanes in the past, so with hurricane season approaching, it might be worthwhile to watch some of these (especially in connection with Local Angles or the angles of state charts.)
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So many charts, so little time.
A very Psyche-Hades post : Mon, 21 Aug 2000
In a message dated 08/21/2000 7:03:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, xxxxx@aol.com writes:
<< BTW, I checked up on Shawcross before writing this to jog my memory and believe me folks, Martha left a lot of the grisly details out. But M, where did you get the info on his childhood? It was fascinating. >>
I had used his chart as a lecture (and--I guess, as a Lecter) example some years ago and to the best of my recollection, the source for all the material on him was from the book mentioned on the site: The Misbegotten Son.
Gacy's chart was in Toot, and, of course, Dahmer's (of Amor-Isis, "I just love you to pieces" and Orpheus-Ceres-Admetus: "Dead food in the refrigerator" fame-- how's that for Jupiter to the Hades-Psyche???) chart is in "Orders of Light." There's a killer's chart in "Mechanics of the Future" that has, like Shawcross, a Toro-Moon if I remember correctly..... As well as dealing with abuse via the mother (or having seen her brutalized and bullied,) the contact can encourage one to "get rough" in the face of needs and vulnerabilities. With Toro representing testosterone, the Moon would create, perhaps, cyclic shifts.
For a time, Richard Speck was thought to be an XYY but I think that was eventually disproven….. Anyway, enjoy???!!!!!
Psyche-Hades : Mon, 21 Aug 2000
Okay ghouls, I have posted a truly grisley chart of a serial killer in both 90* and 360* format charts. The page includes his precession corrected L/R for two of the murders, AND an Aspect Pattern Analysis of his Eros.
This lovely item of business can be found on the site:
http://www.treehousemountain.com by going to the drop down menu under "Seminar" and selecting "Study Chart I"
As he had some things in common with Hannibal Lector and Jeffrey Dahmer, if you are a very delicate soul, avert thy eyes... Otherwise, this should provide plenty of Hades fodder for us for quite a while.
Please note that there are 4 charts on the page and it may take 'em a few seconds to load (depending on the age of your computer.)
L/R Precessed : Sun, 20 Aug 2000
In a message dated 08/20/2000 2:15:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, xxxxx@aol.com writes:
<< At a lecture by Mary Shea on her book on Solar returns, she said if you plan to do precessed returns then you must first start with a precessed natal chart. Now, I'd been using my regular TROPICAL natal chart and doing a precessed lunar from it (via Winstar, but just 3 days ago I got Solar Fire). She says to precess a tropical chart is like mixing the proverbial apples and oranges. So, I guess I've een doing this wrong. Could we have Martha's take on this? >>
In the examples in the texts (see particularly the L/R section in "Architects of Time,') I have used the Tropical and the "Precessed"-- where the precession factor is added to the point (Sun, Moon, whatever) before the chart is calculated. In a L/R, this will advance the angles; it does so also for a S/R but so much so that it won't be as obvious. In a L/R, depending on your age, the angles will be ahead of those in the Tropical. The planets are NOT precessed. This may be mixing oranges and apples but it's effective; it's the plate of fruit you WILL be a-munchin' on! You're looking here for another set of effective angles... and, by golly, you get 'em.
I don't know about Winstar-- older versions used to allow you to get a Geocentric Precession Corrected return that would do things as I've suggested here-- in other words, you'd have the precessed angles shown against non-precessed planets. Other software (Nova, SolarFire) also does this same thing. The ANGLES manifest the precession but the planets are still your regular (non-precessed) points.
So you've been doing it correctly.
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I seem to recall (and I could be wrong) mention of these angulars and wanted to comment:
1. When Hygiea is angular, look also to the importance of "cleaning" (and not only health or fitness.)
2. When Ceres or Demeter are angular, food, meals, diet and nutrition become reason and site for events... and there is the issue of whether one is "taking care of themselves" (or others) and being truly nurturing.
3. Phaethon sure shows stuff with cars, but it's also a reminder that one "may" have gotten the bit in their teeth and have something in their life careening out of control.
I am sooooooooo excited that some of you share my delight with L/Rs!
Psyche-Hades : Thu, 17 Aug 2000
In a message dated 08/16/2000 7:25:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, XXXX@landmarknet.net writes: (of the inclusion of Jupiter in "the mess") << Maybe laugh a little in spite of it all ?? >>
Oh I hope so! (Could we use the Jupiter to run away from it all? Will it bring some of the energy from a foreign source? Will it have some college course on Psychopathology? How 'bout a legal case with an insanity plea? )
I have been thinking about something we could do with the Psyche-Hades to bring it to us (but not so close.) How 'bout we study "the criminal mind"? I could post the chart of some serial deviant and we could focus on that.... I could also post the chart of Freud (if someone has the data.) And you know how Hades loves detail and tedium.... how 'bout we use the phrase, "I want to PICK YOUR BRAIN" a lot? And, since Hades as to do with "the common man," we could do some "pop psychology" talk. (My inner child says, I'm okay, you're okay.... and like that.) (Oh-- am I doing it? Using the Jupiter to make fun of old pain???? Whee! I get a point!)
I know, we still won't escape the impact of the configuration, but we could at least let the gods know that we're TRYING to cooperate.....
(As Carl Sandburg wrote in one of his very few published poems: "Lord forgive the little jokes I make of Thee, for, Lo, the enormous joke Thou hast made of me.")
Re: Correct time : Wed, 16 Aug 2000
I SO agree that an accurate time is essential--especially for detailed predictive work. That's one of the reasons why I went to systems such as return charts; they are a little more forgiving of slight inaccuracies in the given birth time.
After fooling around with it some--oh, years and years ago-- I leave rectification to the experts (and the name, Larry Ely comes to mind.) Small corrections are certainly possible with techniques such as diurnals and daily angles. Those methods are so precise and reliable that it factors on angles aren't manifesting on that day, you know the chart isn't correct. This may throw you to checking events with solar arc angles and a list of events.
But since I don't undertake "blind" rectification, I don't have recommendations. When I see that even experts--both working on the same chart--don't agree, I do throw up my hands.
However, of course I have people who call me for a session and don't have their time (and cannot possibly get it.) I have found that by putting their chart on a dial (with the TNPs and asteroids for noon that day) and using their age as the directed arc, and then placing the eclipses and transits, I can give a really good sense of what's going on. I have also used a solar chart (where the Sun is placed as the Ascendant and that degree used as house cusps around, with the planets, etc placed where they occur.) With the addition of asteroids (and their aspects, sequence, etc) I think one can do a pretty durn good job.
Is it throughout Canada that birth times are not recorded? Is that still the case? I recall lecturing in Ottawa a number of years ago and you weren't allowed to advertise or practice "predictive astrology" and I was told that in advance-- although I lectured in Montreal and Vancouver a number of times and that wasn't mentioned. --?
So-- I guess I didn't really answer your question. Maybe some others will have (Kronos:) opinions or (Poseidon:) better ideas.
Re: Angles, etc. : Tue, 15 Aug 2000
It's not that angles (and personal points) are important ONLY to see illness-- they're important anyway.
As you know, in Uranian, house systems--such as Placidus and Koch, are not used and the accent is on the quality or essence of the factors, and in how they impact one another in an axis, midpoint or structure.
You might well get great information going the cusp route. See, for instance, the Ali chart given in 360 format. Saturn rules the 6th and it squares the ASC and is retrograde, and Venus, ruler of the mind-3rd is also retrograde and opposes the Ascendant. Both Uranus and neptune are retrograde and trine the 6th House Sun-- and if you wanted to go into Mercury in terms of the brain, it squares the MC, trines the retrograde Jupiter, etc. Maybe you'd want to use the 12th House to indicate the illness; it is Moon ruled and the Moon is in Aquarius conj Mercury-- and that'd be another way to see it. (But I'd want the confirmation provided by TNPs and asteroids-- certainly without the benefit of hindsight which is how most astrology is practiced.)
But, when you go at things in the Uranian way (and use asteroids,) you ask the factors to tell their story-- and you "push" at the factors and their interactions/contact to get the delineation.
Since you have the Fox chart and your chart entered on dials, turn a working dial to his Moon and note the pictures it makes; then do the same with yours.
Now take midpoints with the Moon (Moon/Asc, Moon/Mercury, etc.)
I think that we look at charts and note what appear to be "similarities" and thus completely underestimate the specificity of astrology; I think that our comprehension still falls far short of the system and the level of its content. Every "little" thing in a chart makes a difference. When I say, "Little Things Mean a Lot," I'm not just talking about asteroids! :)
Re: Michael Fox/Toot : Tue, 15 Aug 2000
In a message dated 08/15/2000 12:12:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, xxx@xxx writes:
<< Tell me, I wonder, why one person develops something that seems so obvious in his chart the way that you explain it but yet....might not develop THAT way (at least YET) with someone like me? >>
Angles. As I intone (endlessly,) angles are the name of the game. While we already know that in astrology, I think there is still much to study regarding such things as the number of degrees a factor occurs from an angle and how the angles alter the sequence of manifestation from one chart to another.
But, yeah-- I was astonished by the charts too. I never set up the charts before I choose them for Toot, so I get to be as excited as everyone else. I mean-- who knew? There was all the Klotho and Admetus-Toro! For you, bless your heart, your Klotho prolly got your life off to a lousy start... and the Admetus-Toro was "enduring abuse."
Anyway, compare your chart to the Fox chart by running midpoints with the angles-- ie., MC/Asc, Sun/MC, Moon/MC, Aries/MC, Aries/Asc-- and then stuff like MC/Psyche, etc. (It's so wonderful when you know that saying that makes sense to the other person. I still can't believe that people can be in astrology for twenty years or more and never heard of the TNPs or been exposed to dials.)
So much for the amusement of the "astro twin" idea.
Glad you're enjoying Toot.
Re: T. PSYCHE/T. HADES....upcoming line-up : Tue, 15 Aug 2000
\In a message dated 08/15/2000 1:05:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, xxxxx@aol.com writes:
<< Many threads coming to light now are about pain of rejection and knowing one was not the favored child. Parental injustices and wounded children. <<This dialog is about 4 generations >>
Gosh, (or "gish" as I first typed it) you've got so many elements here-- Cupido (for family/generation stuff,) and Lilith for the rejection/favoritism. And then maybe also: Child, Tisiphone, Juno, Hera and some others.
Thanx for letting me know that you enjoyed the mother-child synastry in the last issue of Tools of the Trade; I'm sure you thought of setting up a multi-rim dial with the family members who are doing the Psyche-Hades (or is it the current Amor-Psyche\Pluto... which, I meant to mention, I'd made some notes on under "Predictive" in the Seminar section of the website.)
The new Toot should be reaching everyone by today (or so.) It's a start on Parkinson's Disease. Charts are astonishing...again, always.
Politics & Football Season : Mon, 14 Aug 2000
Just wanted to remind you (and me too) that:
1. With the elections looming, both Pallas and Minerva relate to that "need for approval" and "being political"-- so some of what you are seeing in their aspects in the coming months will be demonstrated in your perception of what's going down on the political scene. (For instance, Gore has a Sun-Pallas conjunction in the 9th!)
2. Lilith too-- it's the vying and the idea of winning and being selected.
3. Of course, Kronos is always relevant to leadership and government, and Kronos-Isis has shown as describing individual states.
4. Preseason Football games are already on the air-- that gives Toro something to do- in charts other than be heavy-handed in your life.
5. And the Olympics are also showing up in charts-- and not only via Toro, Terpsichore, Icarus, Hephaistos, Zeus, Vulcanus and Lilith. There's a Witte formula for the Olympic Games (and, wouldn't you know-- angular Mnemosyne here) I can't think of it at the moment... I recall only that Cupido is one of the factors... and now that will bug me til I think of it... grrrrr (I hate losing my mind; I already miss it!)
Especially with factors at the MC of return charts, you can "experience" them through the outside world. (And, some days, any objectification you can get away with is all to the good!) :)
T. PSYCHE/T. HADES....upcoming line-up : Mon, 14 Aug 2000
Super enegy for psychological research and for getting to the origin of trauma-driven behavior patterns & reactions; excellent time for acknowledging the power of shame--including memories connected to being shamed for vulnerabilities. Great energy under which to connect "psychically" with all that's ancient, and for understanding that, in our woundedness, we are always primitive, always pushed back into the past. The combination is also right for seeing "the mind set" that evolves from poverty, feeling disenfranchised, or dealing with chronic problems. It's probably an energy in which one could productively work for coming to terms with one's Dark Places-- the Shadow Self. And, to ameliorate the gods, if this were huge in my chart, I'd scurry to read on The History of the Brain or of Psychology; I'd drag out Freud (and contemplate the errors in his paradigm!) And I'd tell myself frequently that because I had these "raw" places, I could be mistaken... about points in the axis or pattern. I noted on the site that we are headed now into a period with Psyche-Amor\Pluto, so that's kind of a preparation for the Hades-Psyche.
It is not a great energy for many other things, but, you already know that. And I guess we aren't mentioning that Neptune will likewise figure into the mix--? It's "pass the white-out time" again.
Meditation with Hades : Sat, 12 Aug 2000
In a message dated 08/12/2000 8:54:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<< I've already gotten in trouble for asking if the invisible planets are good for doing charts for our invisible friends... >>
Since you mention this... were you a subscriber to Tools of the Trade a few years ago when I covered the charts of a few people who said they had been abducted by aliens? The TNPs were very prominent on Daily Angles for the dates of that experience. How's that for "interesting"?
Because you have the 12th house Hades, some of what you feel about it may be colored by that (note that you say the energy entered like an ancient sea monster!) Several of your references carry strong 12th House messages/images blended with "the ancient" of Hades, so to use Hades in an other than Jungian sort of way, you might want to keep your notes at hand and see what of that manifests for you and others when Hades is angular in various systems. But I do love how you have "conjured" the primordial unblinking eye, and I trust that--even as perfect as your words were, they could not convey all that you "knew" from your touch with the long ago that is still within us.
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